I've been following your interactions with the lemmy crowd clowns. In my opinion, it isn't worth it trying to promote the website there, it'll just drain your energy. I've interacted with them as well. They're the most toxic community I've ever encountered. It's like the most toxic reddit retards gathered together and started a community-so-called.
You might be right. As right-ish wing as I am I do sort of want a site with better balance. Reddit, and then similar sites, banning and moderating even the slightest right think has really put the internet into silos and it isn't the most healthy. I think if you get a lot of slightly right-ish people and slightly left-ish people then people who are completely insane can't handle seeing even a little variance from their views so having both should be a good repellent to the crazies on both sides.
I get what you mean. Personally I can't stand to be on a site like voat. I think the issue is solved by appealing to intelligent people and not seek a specific type of politics. It seems like an artificial way to introduce variance anyway. Echochambers aren't nice but a website isn't one so long as individuals are free to disagree with the majority. And a website can be swung in a different direction. Take 4chan, for example. I knew it as a left-leaning community that which idealized 'traps' (dudes dressing up as girls). Then along came /news/ (later /pol/) with their right-wing politics and they infected the whole website, it seems. Similarly, a website can be swung to the left. A right-wing political view does seem more reasonable in this climate, although we should realize that TPTSNB are employing it as part of their Hegelian dialectic. There are also reasonable points on the left. But by never exposing people to dialogue, they keep them divided. By not being open to dialogue, the lemmy clowns have proven themselves not to be intelligent and thus not worthy of attention.
You are right. But here is the problem with that regardless. By that standard Saidit is the only intelligent site I have found on the current iteration of the internet. So the most either of us will ever get in our mutual attempts to grow sites is a subset of Saidit? Part of me does believe that environment can do something to shape one's active intelligence. It has to be true, or how did the world become so much more stupid in such a short period of time? I've spent a lot of time on voat. I could feel its impact on me. There were not many people proportionally to have a real discussion with. So for these sites that are mindless echo chambers, I have a theory that only 70% of them are genuinely dim-witted. But there is maybe 30% of them who are repressed by their surroundings. And then maybe 10% who are genuinely bright. I have noticed a correlation. The more someone branches off of the main grouping and the more actively they engage the world the more intelligent they tend to be. It's not a perfectly tight correlation but it is 70% more reliable. If they show that behavior there is at least something turning in their brain that isn't turning in the average person. The folks at lemmy are at least not on facebook or reddit. They tend to be people who are technically capable, which is to say that they play with the world around them. So a good number of them exhibit the two traits that can be a signal for someone with some foundational intelligence. A lot of their stupidity, which is a group psychology, requires certain mod practices. The post above demonstrates it. What would happen long term to them if they were exposed to information like that unfiltered? If they were allowed to be exposed to people like Tucker Carlson who they have been exposed to demonetization of and see the general pattern that refusing to hear someone because of accusations about them is just anti-intellectualism? See the other thing the post did is it invalidated a central dogma of theirs that refusing to listen to certain people is morally positive. What if they were constantly exposed to that invalidation? Some of them actually might un-become stupid. There should be a population of about 20% of the US that can think. A sliver off of Saidit is a lot smaller than that. And there should be about 80% of the US population that can coexist on a site where at least some people are thinking. Some of those people on lemmy might be a part of that 20% and 80% if taken out of a toxic environment. And only the better 5% of that site would ever follow to here anyway.
Good point. The anomaly who comes here and stays is of course more open. When I say it isn't worth it, I simply mean that the cost is too great for the benefit, not that the latter is absent. Maybe your experience is different, but I simply cannot stand hanging around on a site like lemmy.world except to troll. There are much better communities to cater to, even on Lemmy, and perhaps I should compile a list. It definitely isn't only Lemmy. From the top of my head: Blue Dwarf and Exploding Heads (or the off-shoot of it that's still on Lemmy).
My 2 cents is the question of what you want with the site. To be a saidit clone, to be your own community, provide a place to let people unstupid themselves, to be abc and xyz? I came here because I want to engage with people who are doing cool things. I stayed here because its a good place to show off some of my work and it has a lot of potential to be a cool community. I will continue to stay here because movie night is funny as fuck. Now, that's not you; that me. You own the place. So the question really boils down to what - you - want and then try to achieve that.
I think the showing off things you work on and helping people "unstupid themselves" are pretty aligned. Part of the problem is the internet has become a culture of just sharing other people's links for points and then deciding is that a link I want to support or I want to suppress. Sharing what we work on invites people to socialize in a more authentic way. The inathenticity of these communities helps them develop some of these weird group dynamics.
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crowdclowns. In my opinion, it isn't worth it trying to promote the website there, it'll just drain your energy. I've interacted with them as well. They're the most toxic community I've ever encountered. It's like the most toxic reddit retards gathered together and started a community-so-called.I think if you get a lot of slightly right-ish people and slightly left-ish people then people who are completely insane can't handle seeing even a little variance from their views so having both should be a good repellent to the crazies on both sides.
And a website can be swung in a different direction. Take 4chan, for example. I knew it as a left-leaning community that which idealized 'traps' (dudes dressing up as girls). Then along came /news/ (later /pol/) with their right-wing politics and they infected the whole website, it seems. Similarly, a website can be swung to the left.
A right-wing political view does seem more reasonable in this climate, although we should realize that TPTSNB are employing it as part of their Hegelian dialectic. There are also reasonable points on the left. But by never exposing people to dialogue, they keep them divided.
By not being open to dialogue, the lemmy clowns have proven themselves not to be intelligent and thus not worthy of attention.
Part of me does believe that environment can do something to shape one's active intelligence. It has to be true, or how did the world become so much more stupid in such a short period of time? I've spent a lot of time on voat. I could feel its impact on me. There were not many people proportionally to have a real discussion with.
So for these sites that are mindless echo chambers, I have a theory that only 70% of them are genuinely dim-witted. But there is maybe 30% of them who are repressed by their surroundings. And then maybe 10% who are genuinely bright.
I have noticed a correlation. The more someone branches off of the main grouping and the more actively they engage the world the more intelligent they tend to be. It's not a perfectly tight correlation but it is 70% more reliable. If they show that behavior there is at least something turning in their brain that isn't turning in the average person. The folks at lemmy are at least not on facebook or reddit. They tend to be people who are technically capable, which is to say that they play with the world around them. So a good number of them exhibit the two traits that can be a signal for someone with some foundational intelligence.
A lot of their stupidity, which is a group psychology, requires certain mod practices. The post above demonstrates it. What would happen long term to them if they were exposed to information like that unfiltered? If they were allowed to be exposed to people like Tucker Carlson who they have been exposed to demonetization of and see the general pattern that refusing to hear someone because of accusations about them is just anti-intellectualism? See the other thing the post did is it invalidated a central dogma of theirs that refusing to listen to certain people is morally positive. What if they were constantly exposed to that invalidation?
Some of them actually might un-become stupid.
There should be a population of about 20% of the US that can think. A sliver off of Saidit is a lot smaller than that. And there should be about 80% of the US population that can coexist on a site where at least some people are thinking. Some of those people on lemmy might be a part of that 20% and 80% if taken out of a toxic environment. And only the better 5% of that site would ever follow to here anyway.